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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 26 2010 : 6:58:51 PM
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I'm new to this site and new to homeownership. I'm hoping to educate myself a bit about wells/pumps. Last week I heard a loud banging sound coming from my basement. I ran down and the pipes near my well pump were shaking and the guage was going crazy. I had 2 well companies come out and both deduced it was a broken check valve inside the well (in the ground, not in my basement).
One company wanted me to replace the pump (thought the pump should've been changed when geothermal was installed into the house) and also wanted to brush the pipes after pulling the pump to replace the check valve. Total cost $2800.
The second company said none of that was necessary. They simply pulled the pump, replaced the check valve, put in a new guage/pressure switch. They recommended I acid treat the screen but they were not able to do it that day. They said my pump could provide more water pressure if cleaned.
Here are my questions:
1) the check valve that was in my well had a hole drilled into it. The first company said that's so the water wouldn't 'bang' too hard when the pump stops (???) He was planning to drill a hole in the new check valve. The second company did not drill the hole. Is that a problem?
2) 3 days after the check valve was replaced, my water pressure was very low. It recovered fairly quickly but the problem has been occurring every so often. What could be the cause?
Thanks for any advice.... are there other 'maintenance' things I should have done?
I have a submersible system w/ 2 tanks (with bladders). The house has geothermal.
THANKS!
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2010 : 7:01:40 PM
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| Here's some additional info: 48' ft deep well put in 1986. When the pump was pulled, it was from 1991. I think the pump is a starite, 1HP, 230 volts with a 20 GPM capacity. Model # 205P4. The screen is plastic and the paperwork says 'screw on' if that matters. I can probably answer other questions with the well/pump report I have.... |
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speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6244 Posts |
Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 09:01:27 AM
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Where in Michigan?
The screen if it says screw on, probably means it's part of the casing and can't be pulled and replaced. I don't like the plastic part either but that's just me.
Acid treating a screen that old isn't a bad idea.
If you have geothermal, you are probably cycling that pump to death unless you have a Constant pressure valve installed. Sta Rite made a very good pump back then and they did last a long time, but their internal check valves were a problem. They did bang like you described.
The check valve in the well with a hole in it doesn't make any sense at all to me. I have no idea what that guy was talking about. A good check valve with a working spring will stop water hammer.
How much water do your heat pumps use?
Products and Pricing
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 3:49:43 PM
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I live in the Muskegon area of Michigan.
I'm not sure how to evaluate how much water my heat pump uses. Is there a valve/gauge that tells me that info? I have a hot water heater if that's what you're asking about....
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lkoops
Senior Member
Michigan
193 Posts |
Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 10:39:06 PM
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| No he is not. You must have a "pump and dump" system that uses water from your well. Some systems have a flow gauge on the discharge side of the furnace . Like speedbump said your furnace/ac is making your well pump cycle a lot. Back in the late 80's & early 90's those systems were set up w/ multiple tanks to cut down on the cylcing of the pump. There is now cylce stop valves and vairable speed pumps to care of this. I used to have a heat pump myself (never liked it) in my home (I am just south of you in Holland)I was able to size my pump a 1/2 h.p. to be able to run the entire time my furnace was running, my heat pump took 6-8 g.p.m The hole drilled in the check valve makes no sense to me either best bet would be to put a external one 20' above the pump.The bottom line here is to keep your pump running when your furnace is on. Submersible pumps (all pumps for that matter) are made to run, having them starting and stopping is what "kills em". Watch your pressure gauge when your geo-thermal is running if it holds steady somewhere between 30-50 psi. your good. If its at say 20 and falling your well is keeping up. If it's catching up and shutting off then maybe a cycle stop valve should be put in. |
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 08:50:17 AM
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Thanks for the info lkoops and speedbump. Unfortunately I'm still having some issues and I'm unsure what steps to take next. When my AC is running (thru geothermal), I am having low water pressure. I noticed last night that the gauge needle was shaking. The water pressure is just fine when the geothermal isn't running. I noticed this morning that it was sort of loud (humming?) in the basement before the pump shut off.
Will simply cleaning the screen with acid fix all of this or does it sound like I need to take more drastic steps like the original company suggested? Specifically they want me to get the following:
3/4 hp 20 GPM aeromotor pump w/ Franklin
They also want to 'brush' the pipes to remove any Iron. The second company said none of this is necessary. Not sure who to believe as these 2 companies are on opposite ends of the spectrum.
lkoops: is there a company you'd recommend I call? Riegler out of Walkerville fixed the check valve and Central Wells in Muskegon is the company that wanted me to replace the pump and brush the valves.
To recap what I've already done: replaced the check valve 'in' the well. Replaced the pressure switch and new gauge.
Thanks again for the advice. |
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speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6244 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 11:53:11 AM
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Holes in check valves and brushing pipes, I think I would stay away from those guys. Lkoops should be able to put you onto a good guy. Maybe he can do it. You can be sure of a good job then.
Products and Pricing
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 1:20:52 PM
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| Rest assured, I didn't use the company that reccomended the brushing of the pipes. I went with another company who put my neighbors well in. I did a test this morning on the pressure. When the AC is off, pressure is at 45. When the AC kicks on, the pressure drops to 40. Pumps kicks on. The pressure then falls, while the AC is on, all the way to 13. I turn the AC off and it goes back up. Water pressure is low obviously when AC is on.... |
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speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6244 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 1:27:11 PM
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Yup, either the pump isn't keeping up, or the well is drawing down which would act the same way.
Pump could be wearing out, which is rare or it could be loaded up with minerals which is also rare, but not impossible. I would lean more toward the well though.
Products and Pricing
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 1:45:45 PM
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| Can you explain the 'well is drawing down'? I also found out yesterday that my neighbor's transformer was hit by lightning and has resulted in some very odd electrical issues around their house and mine (garage door openers not operating, sprinkler system starter pump faulty etc...) Could this have affected anything with regards to the pump? |
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Driller1
Senior Member
Michigan
364 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 5:43:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by klb
Can you explain the 'well is drawing down'? I also found out yesterday that my neighbor's transformer was hit by lightning and has resulted in some very odd electrical issues around their house and mine (garage door openers not operating, sprinkler system starter pump faulty etc...) Could this have affected anything with regards to the pump?
Yes!!! |
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snake
Advanced Member
CA
134 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 6:15:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by klb
I also found out yesterday that my neighbor's transformer was hit by lightning and has resulted in some very odd electrical issues around their house and mine (garage door openers not operating, sprinkler system starter pump faulty etc...)
Are you on the same transformer? Have you checked your circuit breaker box for tripped breakers?
Snake |
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 7:50:03 PM
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| I'm not on the same transformer but we have shared electrical lines. My circuit breaker box does not have any tripped breakers... Still waiting for the well company to return my call..... if anyone knows of a reputable company in the Western MI area, would greatly appreciate it. |
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lkoops
Senior Member
Michigan
193 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 10:33:52 PM
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| klb give me your address I can possibly find your well record on line, sounds like your well isn't producing enough water, at what pressure doses it kick off 60? If it works fine for house use and not the geo thermal then the screen could possibly be plugging.Central wells is usually a pretty good company. Muskegon is a little to far north for a service call from us. Someones got to be able to figure this out, did any one stick a water level indicator down the well when your pump was running? I am going to Boston for the next few days to tour the flexcon tank plant. |
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Driller1
Senior Member
Michigan
364 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 12:03:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lkoops
klb give me your address I can possibly find your well record on line, sounds like your well isn't producing enough water, at what pressure doses it kick off 60? If it works fine for house use and not the geo thermal then the screen could possibly be plugging.Central wells is usually a pretty good company. Muskegon is a little to far north for a service call from us. Someones got to be able to figure this out, did any one stick a water level indicator down the well when your pump was running? I am going to Boston for the next few days to tour the flexcon tank plant.
Have fun!!!
We have been working 18 hour days, still behind.
All the rain did not help. |
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 08:26:34 AM
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| lkoops: what's a phone number I can reach you? I'd rather not post my address for the entire world to see :) I don't know if anyone stuck a water level indicator down the well. I don't think so honestly. At this point, Riegler (who changed the check valve) can't come out this week so it's got to wait. HOpefully this isn't doing any damage. When the AC is running, I'm not using any other water. I guess I'll have to turn the AC off when I need to do laundry. I won't ruin anything by doing laundry will I? |
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speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6244 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 08:27:44 AM
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quote:
All the rain did not help.
Hey, watch it. I'm leaving at 10:AM heading that way. I don't want to hear anything about rain for at least two weeks.
Products and Pricing
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 08:29:28 AM
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| and yes, the pump is shutting off at 60 |
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Driller1
Senior Member
Michigan
364 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 08:30:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by klb
lkoops: what's a phone number I can reach you? I'd rather not post my address for the entire world to see :) I don't know if anyone stuck a water level indicator down the well. I don't think so honestly. At this point, Riegler (who changed the check valve) can't come out this week so it's got to wait. HOpefully this isn't doing any damage. When the AC is running, I'm not using any other water. I guess I'll have to turn the AC off when I need to do laundry. I won't ruin anything by doing laundry will I?
http://www.deq.state.mi.us/well-logs/
The older well logs are on line.
Yours could be in here. |
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 08:30:59 AM
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| driller 1, where are you located in MI? What company are you with? |
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Driller1
Senior Member
Michigan
364 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 08:32:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by speedbump
quote:
All the rain did not help.
Hey, watch it. I'm leaving at 10:AM heading that way. I don't want to hear anything about rain for at least two weeks.
Products and Pricing
It was a little better the last few days.
Still very humid.
Have a great vacation!!!! |
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Driller1
Senior Member
Michigan
364 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 08:34:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by klb
driller 1, where are you located in MI? What company are you with?
Way north and east of you.
Rhodes, really no where. |
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 08:40:32 AM
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| I have a well report from when the company came out... but I'll see if the online records show anything else. Thanks! |
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 09:02:24 AM
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I've seen people upload pictures... not sure how to get this well report into the message...
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speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6244 Posts |
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speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6244 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 09:07:49 AM
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quote:
It was a little better the last few days.
Still very humid.
Have a great vacation!!!!
Thanks, I needed that!
And the humidity is something I'm very used to. It's been in the high eighties lately with temps in the low to mid 90's.
Products and Pricing
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 09:46:47 AM
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Driller1
Senior Member
Michigan
364 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 12:45:10 PM
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You will not like what I have to say.....
Do not put any money in this well.
It is not worth it. In five years or less you will have a hole in the casing from the acid.
Have someone drill you a new 5" PVC well.
Be sure the use a plastic screen. |
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 1:37:50 PM
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| Can you tell me what's 'wrong' with my current well that will cause it to have a hole in the casing? |
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klb
Junior Member
MI
17 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 1:44:44 PM
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| and just to be sure I understand what you're saying, if I acid treat the screen to clean it, the acid will cause a hole in the casing? |
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Driller1
Senior Member
Michigan
364 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 2:28:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by klb
and just to be sure I understand what you're saying, if I acid treat the screen to clean it, the acid will cause a hole in the casing?
Steel wells will get holes in the casing. Just a matter of time. The soil makes a difference. Around here about 20/25 years is all they will last.
Yes, acid is very hard on metal.
BTY, 4" wells can be VERY hard to remove the pump. Not much room down in there. When you add the corrosion, sometimes they will not come out. |
Edited by - Driller1 on Jul 29 2010 2:29:27 PM |
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Well issues
