| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
USA
28 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 16 2010 : 09:46:10 AM
|
Alright Guys and Dolls...Lemme see if ya'll can lend a quick hand with this issue I'm having with my Well..
For Starters, The Well is only about 14' deep to the top of the water level, and I've got a 1" Schedule 40 PVC pipe with a foot valve about 3' under the water level, running a total of 18' to the top of the well into my pump. so I'm WELL under what it should be to pump water out (or at least that is my understanding)
The pump is a Pacific Hydrostar 1hp 1" Jet Pump (and I dont even understand how this damn thing is supposed to work! Go Figure!)
its set up like this..
Maximum flow: 898 gallons per hour
Maximum suction lift: 26 ft.
Maximum total head: 164 ft.
Maximum pressure: 72 PSI
Discharge/intake ports: 1" NPT
Thermal overload protection: 95° max. water temperature, Automatic reset
Stainless steel pump housing
5 gallon, hardened steel alloy tank
Here is my Problem - It says that before running the pump to prime it, Did that...It also says to inflate the air bladder inside the tank to 26-29PSI, I have it right at 29PSI, and it's not sucking up any water. I checked the foot valve and it wasn't clogged or anything like that, it doesnt even feel like its getting suction. SO, I'm wondering if I just need to replace the pipe work and go with all metal pipe into the foot valve and down the hole, or if something else is wrong...
Of course too, The pressure gauge on it doesn't show any pressure building in the system either.
Any help would be SERIOUSLY appreciated!
Nate
|
|
|
Texas Wellman
Senior Member
SE Texas
214 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2010 : 4:23:18 PM
|
What elevation are you at? the higher the elevation, the less depth that you can suck from.
Also you need more than 3 feet under the water. I would extend the suction line down to 25-30 ft. The water will rise in the suction pipe to the static water level. |
 |
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2010 : 4:44:28 PM
|
Greeley is in the 4600' range (I think) And If I extend it down much farther, IT'll hit the bottom of the well..I Tried that already and got a foot valve full of mud...
It might be in deeper that 3' below the water line too...Im not 100% sure...but it still doesnt explain why its not sucking up any water..
Nate |
|
|
|
JustWellWater84
Senior Member
Florida
364 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2010 : 01:52:54 AM
|
what is the wells primary use? what is well diameter? how is the suction inlet of the pump hooked to the drop pipe exactly and how close is pump to well? smallest air leak is a major problem on suction side. what is your exact priming procedure? is this a harbor freight pump? surely it isnt the 1hp pump/tank combo they have on sale for 99$ on website? if so, get real.. its junk.
i would not feel comfortable with 3' below water level. if well is that shallow, i would set foot valve about a foot from the bottom. |
Edited by - JustWellWater84 on Jul 17 2010 02:01:25 AM |
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2010 : 08:34:56 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by JustWellWater84
what is the wells primary use? what is well diameter? how is the suction inlet of the pump hooked to the drop pipe exactly and how close is pump to well? smallest air leak is a major problem on suction side. what is your exact priming procedure? is this a harbor freight pump? surely it isnt the 1hp pump/tank combo they have on sale for 99$ on website? if so, get real.. its junk.
i would not feel comfortable with 3' below water level. if well is that shallow, i would set foot valve about a foot from the bottom.
Irrigation is what we use the well for, The suction inlet is screwed into the pipe via a 1" Schedule 40 PVC, The pump is not right on top of the well, but pretty close, Priming is simple...Remove the primer plug on the motor housing and fill it with water before turning it on, It is the Harbor Freight pump (regardless of if its junk or not, its what was the least expensive until I can jar up the 700+ bucks for a good well pump, but thanks for your oppinion on that) and it was the 99 dollar one...
The Well is just a deep hole with a 6" Metal pipe extending to the water level, From the top of the pipe to the water level is about 14 feet, And I've done tried the foot valve on the bottom...IT sucked up a ton of dirt into it and clogged it up pretty quickly. |
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2010 : 08:40:03 AM
|
I missed your question about the size of the well, but put it in later...
I dont know how he did it, but my father in law had it dug, and then stuffed with the 6" metal pipe (according to his words) the pump that was in there was about 16 years old and rusted to sheeeet! If the jet pump doesnt work, then we're going to go with the FloTech from Home Depot and be done with this project...
The other idea I tossed around was using 1" clear plastic tubing and get it all connected that way...But I'm not sure if it work or not. I'm pretty confident that I dont have any leaks in the actual pipe..But I guess anything is possible.
Nate |
|
|
|
speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6268 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2010 : 09:28:14 AM
|
Your going to replace a junk pump with a junkier pump if your buying a Flotec.
I don't know where your doing your shopping but a very good 1hp(a real 1hp jet pump with an 1-1/4" suction) costs less than $400.00 from me.
It sounds like you may have filled your footvalve with mudd again. Even a junk pump should lift water 14 foot and prime up. Since you used PVC, I assume you have more than one fitting from the pump to the droppipe. While the pump is running, brush PVC glue around each fitting where the pipe enters the fitting. If you have an air leak, the suction will draw glue into the fitting and usually stop the air leak.
Priming a pump sometimes takes several attempts. This is also done leaving the priming plug loose so the air can escape. When water starts spraying out of the prime plug, you can now tighten it.
Products and Pricing
|
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2010 : 09:57:35 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by speedbump
Your going to replace a junk pump with a junkier pump if your buying a Flotec.
I don't know where your doing your shopping but a very good 1hp(a real 1hp jet pump with an 1-1/4" suction) costs less than $400.00 from me.
It sounds like you may have filled your footvalve with mudd again. Even a junk pump should lift water 14 foot and prime up. Since you used PVC, I assume you have more than one fitting from the pump to the droppipe. While the pump is running, brush PVC glue around each fitting where the pipe enters the fitting. If you have an air leak, the suction will draw glue into the fitting and usually stop the air leak.
Priming a pump sometimes takes several attempts. This is also done leaving the priming plug loose so the air can escape. When water starts spraying out of the prime plug, you can now tighten it.
Products and Pricing
I'll try that when I get home on Sunday night, And as far as priming it goes, I did just that and removed the plug until water sprayed out to let the air out...
The place right next door to my Sheriff's Office up here in Divide is where I was looking at the cost of a pump. I figured that the flotech's weren't that great, just like this pump I've got now...But if it'll get me through the remainder of the summer...I'm not going to complain.
Could there be a potential issue with using just clear plastic tubing?? or maybe I should just buy some 1" sprinkler line and do it that way?
Nate |
|
|
|
speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6268 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2010 : 10:25:51 AM
|
Suction line may collapse from the vacuum if it's not the right kind. Either Galvanized, PVC or Poly. That's about all I'm aware of.
Why waste your money on another junk pump when a few bucks more will get you one that will last decades instead of months?
Products and Pricing
|
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2010 : 10:39:06 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by speedbump
Suction line may collapse from the vacuum if it's not the right kind. Either Galvanized, PVC or Poly. That's about all I'm aware of.
Why waste your money on another junk pump when a few bucks more will get you one that will last decades instead of months?
Products and Pricing
Simple...its a quick fix for now until I can buy a nicer
pump...unfortunately...us police officers don't make that much money LOL!
I honestly think that the other well pump I've got might still work...I'm going to let one of my other officers take a look at it...dispite the housing being rusted...it still spins just fine, so maybe I'll get lucky.
I will see if I can post a picture of it shortly
Nate |
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2010 : 2:05:51 PM
|
Here are a couple pictures of the pumps that were in our well...The first one was NOT in use, and I think it might still work...
This was the one that took a crap on us...its a 1hp as well.
 |
|
|
|
speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6268 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2010 : 12:59:44 PM
|
The first one is a self primer. Not to be used with a switch. The second is a jet pump. Both look like they have seen better days.
Products and Pricing
|
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2010 : 1:06:04 PM
|
How would one go about testing the first pump? I wired it in to a connection and nothing happened with it...I'm going to try and take the head off the front of it and see if the motor is just bad...seems the motor can be replaced easier than just the head on it...
The second one, I can't even get the front of the casing off of it. I removed all the bolts and such, but it won't move...I was told that if I can spin the impeller that it should still be a good pump...any ideas on how to take the front of it off without completely breaking the pump? |
|
|
|
JustWellWater84
Senior Member
Florida
364 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2010 : 1:31:10 PM
|
| If u are just checking to see if the shaft spins freely, take the back plate off the motor and see |
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2010 : 4:14:01 PM
|
Not so much that it spins, but to see if I can pipe in this pump instead of the harbor frieght one...
Because if the first pump works, then that'll save me a ton of time. Only problem like speedy said is that its not meant for a switch, and the blue pump was on a switched 220... |
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2010 : 4:39:32 PM
|
I can tell you that when I cut the lines (it went to the neighbors house, however was bought by my father in law so dont worry LOL) that they were completely full of water, but it probably hasnt been turned on in I'd say 7 years...The water that was in the pipe was clear though, not rusty colored at all...
I'd gather since it can't be operated on a switch, that it would need to have a pressure switch or a float valve? Im not sure, like I said it would be just a guess by me.
Nate |
|
|
|
speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6268 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2010 : 09:09:50 AM
|
The first one being a self primer does not work well with a pressure switch. As you see, the jet pump has a switch and the self primer doesn't. There is a good reason for that.
The jet pump has a seal plate that is gasketed to the pump housing. After removing the four bolts from the square flange of the motor, you need a sharp chisel (screw driver is the tool most used) to drive between the seal plate and front housing. It's between the housing and the square flange. It's only about 1/4" thick and looks like it belongs to the housing.
Products and Pricing
|
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2010 : 09:15:22 AM
|
I getcha now! So the self priming unit needs to just have the pipe in the well to draw out water, and needs a throw switch to operate then right?
Nate |
|
|
|
speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6268 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2010 : 2:15:05 PM
|
Yes, that's right. Either a timer or a pump start.
Products and Pricing
|
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2010 : 10:46:49 PM
|
Lemme ask a couple questions-
For starters, I went through and sealed all of my connections on the pipe going into the one that goes down to the water, re-primed it and started it up...No water is being sucked up at all...
According to the switch cover, it says "cut on: 1.5bar" cut off: 2.9bar
Could it be that the pressure switch is set too high?
If that is the case, how do I re-adjust the pressure switch? Mine has one large spring screw with the "P" and a + & - sign in opposite directions, the other screw is smaller and has a triangle next to the P if that helps any...
Lastly- would it hurt to inflate the bladder past 29psi? I'm not sure, but this thing should be sucking up water already!
Nate |
|
|
|
snake
Advanced Member
CA
135 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2010 : 09:34:10 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diesel984
Could it be that the pressure switch is set too high?
If the pump is running and you are not getting water it is not the pressure switch, the pressure switch only turns the pump on and off.
Snake |
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2010 : 10:09:57 PM
|
 I changed all the fittings again this morning and went to 18' of Poly Pipe (Sprinkler line) to get a tighter seal on the foot valve and so forth...Also replaced the pump (after 40 minutes on the phone with some idiot from china who didn't know what he was even talking about) And ended up with the same pump... 1HP Shallow Well with the booster tank...
I dont get it, But it's not sucking up ANY water. I've primed and re-primed the pump SEVERAL times, and there's just no suction power...I even went as far as turning on the pump and putting my hand over the inlet port to see if there was any suction and nothing...Could it SERIOUSLY be that I've had 2 pumps fail right out of the boxes??
I'm eyeballing a Wayne (hope that's not too bad of a pump) that's a 1HP Shallow well...Maybe that will work?
I dont get it, The booster tank is set at 26psi, and the thing still isn't pulling any water...Are there any other sugguestions??
Nate |
|
|
|
snake
Advanced Member
CA
135 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2010 : 10:53:39 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diesel984
I changed all the fittings again this morning and went to 18' of Poly Pipe (Sprinkler line) to get a tighter seal on the foot valve and so forth
I guess I need to go back and read all you inputs, but now why did you use "sprinkler line" for the drop pipe, that may squeeze closed before the water is drawn up thru it...
Snake |
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2010 : 11:06:39 PM
|
I used poly pipe because its rigid enough that its not going to fold under pressure...I had schedule 40 and to what I can figure, I didn't have a good seal somewhere, and ran into the now suction problem with it again...
Nate |
|
|
|
speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6268 Posts |
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2010 : 09:32:46 AM
|
| Up to 100PSI... |
|
|
|
speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6268 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2010 : 09:47:46 AM
|
What do you mean up to??? Is it 100 psi rated or 80 or 60, or is it water softener drain line???
Products and Pricing
|
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2010 : 09:52:46 AM
|
| Its stamped on the pipe as its rated to hold up to 100psi.. |
|
|
|
speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6268 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2010 : 11:37:14 AM
|
That's too thin for suction. You need at least 125 and I have seen that collapse a few times.
Products and Pricing
|
|
|
|
Diesel984
Advanced Member
Colorado
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2010 : 12:08:38 PM
|
| Our older Water Ace Pump AND the Goulds pump were both piped in the same way without any problems, I have a hard time beleiving that it would colapse the pipe...And I'm not going to go buy more pipe, I'd rather just buy a higher quality pump and go from there |
|
|
|
speedbump
admin
Riverview
Florida
6268 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2010 : 12:17:24 PM
|
I don't think you grasp the reality of things.
No matter how much or little you spend on a pump, it should still prime if:
1. You have no air leaks in your fittings.
2. Your water level is less than 25 feet vertically from the pumps suction port.
3. Your suction line doesn't collapse.
4. You have the pump hooked up correctly. I still haven't seen any pictures of the install.
5. You leave the prime plug loose after filling the pumps casting and suction line with water.
6. The well actually produces water.
The tank has nothing whatsoever to do with the pump priming or making pressure. It doesn't do anything for the pump. It only protects it from cycling.
Products and Pricing
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Pump Issue!
