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 Well, pump, tank, water quality, plmbg & electric
 Pumps in general
 How to install ---Well to Holding tank
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Essential
New Member



Victoria
bc
Canada


6 Posts

Posted - Jul 06 2007 :  11:16:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit Essential's Homepage Send Essential a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have been told that due to the fact i have only 2 gal/min of water after a 12hr pump down test that i should install a 500 gal holding tank in my new house. I think i have the jist of what needs to be done but thought i would run it by you guys.

I am going to install a submersibal pump down the well that pumps to the holding tank. This pump is to be controled by a float switch in the holding tank. (I understand that a pumptec control would prevent this pump from running if the water in the well drops below an acceptable level??)

Secondly another shallow/ Jet pump runs fromt the holding tank to a small pressure tank and then into the house. I am hoping that this arrangement would allow me to have a fairly constant pressure in the house rather than the typical well cycle rate of 40-55psi.

Any thoughts on this arrangement or any advice on a better methgod would be much appreciated.

Thanks

speedbump
Admin



Riverview
Florida
11691 Posts

Posted - Jul 07 2007 :  09:19:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit speedbump's Homepage Send speedbump a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First of all, thanks for the jokes I liked them all.

The Pumptec will only turn the pump off if the water level in the well drops to the pumps inlet causing it to have a drop in amperage which will trigger the Pumptec to turn off the pump for a preset time. A timer may be needed if you think this may be a problem. A lot will depend on the depth and diameter of the well as to the amount of storage is in the well.

Instead of a jet pump I would use a submersible pump in the 500 gallon tank. You can install it in the tank with a Cycle Stop Valve to give you constant pressure while the pump is running and a small 42 gallon bladder tank will work nicely with the pump and valve. It's also a good idea to use a float to turn the submersible in the tank off before it can pump the tank dry.

bob...

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Essential
New Member



Victoria
bc
6 Posts

Posted - Jul 07 2007 :  11:46:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit Essential's Homepage Send Essential a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the info speedbump. I have a question though what are the advantages of using a submersible in the tank over an external mount pump.

Thanks for the idea about the second float switch to shut off the house pump. Guess i never considered I would use 500gal at a time, but on the other hand it makes sense that if my well is not producing enough water I might not be starting with 500gals of water in the tank.

Thanks again
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JeffGr
Senior Member



SC
355 Posts

Posted - Jul 07 2007 :  12:39:30 PM  Show Profile Send JeffGr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bob could he use a booster pump instead of the submersible hooked to a pressure switch and the bladder tank? A self priming booster pump should give him all the pressure he needs. He could also use a smaller pressure tank if he uses the CSV.

I would also recommend you use "water saving" shower heads and faucets. This will limit the draw down if the tank isn't full.
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speedbump
Admin



Riverview
Florida
11691 Posts

Posted - Jul 09 2007 :  10:21:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit speedbump's Homepage Send speedbump a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes he could Jeff. A booster pump is nothing more than a submersible pump installed on the end of a jet pump motor. This makes it a non submersible but will deliver the same amount of water and pressure as a sub would. The only problem is, they are not self priming. They really need a flooded suction or a very good initial prime to keep them from having what I call a nuclear meltdown. A jet pump would be the other alternative, but it would take a one horse to give the water and pressure that a 1/2hp sub could give under the same conditions. So less electric used. The CSV works better with a sub also, since jet's aren't known for making high pressures.

bob...

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Essential
New Member



Victoria
bc
6 Posts

Posted - Jul 10 2007 :  01:52:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit Essential's Homepage Send Essential a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bob

a dumb thought just occured while I was reading this. You are reccomending a sub pump for in the cistern. normally these are approx 3' long and held in place by the well casing and the long length of pipe down the well. What stops this pump from torquing around inside the cistern when there is only going to be 1' of pipe attached to it before it come out of the cistern. I really like the idea of a cycle stop valve as my wife really wants the constant pressure like the city water gives you. so i am trying to grasp how the sub pump would install in the tank.

Thanks Dean
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speedbump
Admin



Riverview
Florida
11691 Posts

Posted - Jul 10 2007 :  08:27:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit speedbump's Homepage Send speedbump a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can install it flat on the bottom horizontally. Some companies say not to do so, but it has been done for many years without any problems I am aware of. A two wire motor does not have a lot of starting torque. I would just use a galvanized nipple (or brass) to attach the CSV to, then elbow up and out of the tank.

I have all the necessary items needed at very good prices.

bob...

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doktrred
Advanced Member

Llano
Tx
58 Posts

Posted - Jul 13 2007 :  1:59:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit doktrred's Homepage Send doktrred a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a 1500 gal cistern that my well pumps into. I was going through the same decision making as you are now. I decided to go with one of Bobs 1/2 Hp subs in the cistern. I took two small cinder blocks, and ground a "v" groove in the tops, and laid the sub on these. I then took a 90 deg. elbow off the pump up to a bulk head fitting on my cistern. My CSV valve is located between the cistern and the pressure tank(also from Bob). THis set up is working well and I like the CSV. I THINK I have a few pics somewhere if they would help. It was a little tricky initially getting the blocks set and the pump lined up onthose blocks since I couldn't climb down into my cistern(16" manway, 17" butt).

I may have missed this but how far away is your cistern, is there any rise from cistern to house, what size pipe from the cistern to the house? I learned all these things can and do affectwhat kind of pressure you can expect at the house.
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Essential
New Member



Victoria
bc
6 Posts

Posted - Jul 15 2007 :  7:21:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit Essential's Homepage Send Essential a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The cistern is in my crawlspace so the only lift for the pump would be to the top floor approx 28ft. My only concern with laying the pump on its side is the bearings in the motor would have been installed for a shaft up application an if you lay it on its side you may not have the correct bearing/bushing arrangement. This only comes to mine as my line of work requires specific bearing for ertical vs horizontal shaft mounting.
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Rancher
Senior Member



823 Posts

Posted - Jul 15 2007 :  11:46:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit Rancher's Homepage  Send Rancher a Yahoo! Message Send Rancher a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Essential
My only concern with laying the pump on its side is the bearings in the motor would have been installed for a shaft up application an if you lay it on its side you may not have the correct bearing/bushing arrangement.
And this is also the concern of the pump mfg's, they say don't orienate at less than vertical or at max 10 degrees. This is why they make a horizontal centrifugal pump but they call it a "booster pump" I've used them for years with a cistern tank, they are easy to service, they aren't submersibed, and can suck out of the bottom of the tank.

Rancher
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speedbump
Admin



Riverview
Florida
11691 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2007 :  08:30:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit speedbump's Homepage Send speedbump a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The booster pump Rancher is talking about will work good with a flooded suction. But it must be primed first. They have no self priming characteristics at all.

bob...

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Rancher
Senior Member



823 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2007 :  09:05:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit Rancher's Homepage  Send Rancher a Yahoo! Message Send Rancher a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not self priming, which is why you need to suck out of the bottom of the cistern, I believe the spec on them is that if it is primed, you can suck 10' vertical.

Rancher
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speedbump
Admin



Riverview
Florida
11691 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2007 :  09:27:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit speedbump's Homepage Send speedbump a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would think they could do that, but I have no experience with them. We just don't have an application for them here.

If you look at the curves, they don't show lift at all. That's why I don't know how far one could actually lift water. I would think once completely primed, they should be able to lift the same as any other centrifugal.

bob...

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